Our deep dive into Tekumel and the life & works of Phil Barker continues, with professional help in the form of TENEPOD’s own Fritz. Together we explore facets of the Tekumel setting and the stance the main actors of the Tekumel foundation seem to have taken, and their silence on many topics. We discuss the playstyle of the Barker group(s) and collect ideas for a general explanation about the fascism – fantasy connection. Many tangents are included, not the least of which is where we discuss Gary Gygax’s take on alignment and his Chivington reference on the old EN-World Q&A threads.
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Shownotes
- The Empire Never Ended amerikanski-balkanski anti-fascist podcast
- Teaser to Part 2 of TENEPOD’s analysis of Serpent’s Walk
- Tekumel Podcast
- James Mal cannot be bothered to give a fuck
- Phil Barker’s early contributions to Sci Fi fandom
- Tekumel Foundation director’s statement
- Inloes, Amina. „Muhammad Abd al‐Rahman (Phillip) Barker: Bridging Cultural Divides through Fantasy/Science‐Fiction Role‐Playing Games and Fictional Religion.“ The Muslim World 108.3 (2018): 387-418.
- Tekumel-Collecting blog post with interesting discussion thread
the meloni / tolkien connection isn’t that strange. Italy’s free festival movement had one called hobbit camp. it tried to forge a working relationship with hippies, anarchists, and fascists.
Now that is weird, not quot wrapping my heads around that.
well, okay, maybe not that strange is the wrong phrase lol.
although there are some problems with it, this article is the best overview in english:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hobbit-camps-fascism-italy
Thanks for this salutary episode. A single point:
– Pygmy Folks: The descriptive bits that become problematic when put together are mainly spread around the „Tekumel Sourcebook“ (1983). Page 24 („they resemble rodents, with a sharp-featured face, large ears“); page 59 („capricious (…) very greedy (…) ‚To bargain with one of the Pygmy Folk is to throw away one’s purse‘.“; page 73 „high incidence of violent crimes [in their communities]“; page 89 („This [creature’s behavior] is all cynical deception“); page 94 („the smooth and crafty pleasantries of the Pygmy Folk which conceal their avarice as a film of oil covers water“). The Tekumel Wiki pages are not the best resource.
Thank you for clearing that up! We did not indeed check the Tekumel sourcebook thoroughly.
I enjoyed the podcast and have now subscribed to TENEpod! I’d like to contribute a few points about Minnesota that could enhance your discussion on these topics. During the conversation, it was mentioned that the Twin Cities held significant influence in organized wargaming, a context crucial to D&D’s inception. Interestingly, Minnesota also had a notable presence of organized Nazi groups during both D&D’s early years and Barker’s career span.
This raises questions about potential shared origins between the forces driving such groups and a thriving wargaming culture. It’s plausible that these phenomena run in parallel, stemming from a general inclination towards engagement in various organized social groups. For instance, the Twin Cities area saw surprisingly active Trotskyist organizations during similar time frames.
Another thought that emerged while listening pertains to the topic. I believe it was Septembrini who commented on the cringeworthy nature of an adult man with a doctorate discussing ethnic cuisine in a somewhat provincial manner. Although I missed the exchange, this immediately reminded me of a common communication style among a subset of (typically white and male) baby boomer adults in Minnesota. This tendency is of course partly influenced by the less-than-impressive state of US food culture in the mid-20th century. However, it was also nurtured by popular narratives (like Fargo) that marketed Minnesota as a cultural commodity—both internally and externally. This particular aesthetic is exemplified in Garrison Keillor’s weekly radio segments, „The Tales from Lake Wobegon,“ where humorous portrayals of Minnesotans as rural, Norwegian, and Lutheran characters prevail (examples are ready to hand on youtube). In essence, this PhD individual might have intended to come across as folksy and endearing, aligning with a distinct Minnesotan manner. Regrettably, statements like „ketchup is spicy to me“ are commonplace attempts at humor here.
Interestingly, Keillor purposefully crafted the notion of a Lutheran and Norwegian Minnesota to obscure the less marketable and reality that the most prevalent ethnic and religious combination in the state is German and Catholic, a trend across Midwestern states dating back to the 1800s influx of German and Scandinavian immigrants. Makes one wonder if there are more intersections between MN’s earlier wargaming scene and fascist organizing.
Thank you for the outstanding podcast!
(Original post had supporting links, but repeated autorejects made me think that they may be the problem.)
Thank you for clearing this up! I only looked at Empire of the Petal Throne: The World of Tekumel (1975) and the Pygmy folk there seemed fine.
Thank you for this episode, and your raster astute reading of the situation. It’s refreshing to see the politics of certain rpg authors being discussed with such verve and enthusiasm. However, why not extend this interest of yours to the authors who actually come on your show? Case in point, „that Gabor Lux character“, to use the parlance you used when discussing the unsavory president of the Tekumel Foundation. When you had Lux over, you decided not to discuss politics right after he got a bit chagrined at the prospect of discussing them. Was that because it would have been too awkward to bring this subject up with him, a person whose work you’ve greatly admired over the years, and one with whom you breathlessly bonded over your love of old-school D&D? This is unfortunate and disappointing, particularly since Lux’s politics are integral not only to the manner in which he publicly expressed and conducted himself on certain forums, but also to some of his rpg output, most obviously his Helveczia rpg, as he stated himself in the episode I refer to here.
We had discussing current OSR on the list, but we reserved that for a different time. I think Gabor Lux describes himself as an arch-conservative. I would disagree on how much that informs his gaming output so far, but surely this could be debated. This is also why we gladly, not awkwardly, stayed away from politics during our interview. I know were I personally fundamentally disagree with his politics (and he does with mine). That seems to me to be a totally different ballgame than, say Barker or the Bledsaw(s).
In my ideal (and real-life experience, of which I talk a bit in the Patrick Stuart interview), a police and an antifa-person should be able to sit down at the same table and play, say Shadowrun.
I enjoyed the podcast and have now subscribed to TENEpod! I’d like to contribute a few points about Minnesota that could enhance your discussion on these topics. During the conversation, it was mentioned that the Twin Cities held significant influence in organized wargaming, a context crucial to D&D’s inception. Interestingly, Minnesota also had a notable presence of organized Nazi groups during both D&D’s early years and Barker’s career span.
This raises questions about potential shared origins between the forces driving such groups and a thriving wargaming culture. It’s plausible that these phenomena run in parallel, stemming from a general inclination towards engagement in various organized social groups. For instance, the Twin Cities area saw surprisingly active Trotskyist organizations during similar time frames.
Another thought that emerged while listening pertains to the topic. I believe it was Septembrini who commented on the cringeworthy nature of an adult man with a doctorate discussing ethnic cuisine in a somewhat provincial manner. Although I missed the exchange, this immediately reminded me of a common communication style among a subset of (typically white) baby boomer adults in Minnesota. This tendency is partly influenced by the less-than-impressive state of US food culture in the mid-20th century and nurtured by popular narratives (like Fargo) that marketed Minnesota as a cultural commodity—both internally and externally. This particular aesthetic is exemplified in Garrison Keillor’s weekly radio segments, „The Tales from Lake Wobegon,“ where humorous portrayals of Minnesotans as rural, Norwegian, and Lutheran characters prevail. In essence, this PhD individual might have intended to come across as folksy and endearing, aligning with a distinct Minnesotan manner. Regrettably, statements like „ketchup is spicy to me“ are commonplace attempts at humor here.
Interestingly, Keillor purposefully crafted the notion of a Lutheran and Norwegian Minnesota to obscure the less marketable reality that the most prevalent ethnic and religious combination in the state is German and Catholic, a trend dating back to the 1800s influx of German and Scandinavian immigrants. It’s worth noting that Keillor’s decision to veil Minnesota’s demographic makeup was partially driven by the fact that the German-Catholic plurality was widespread in many Midwestern states. Nevertheless, the state’s German cultural foundation does prompt in me some consideration of what differentiates the specific conditions fostering fascist organizations from those nurturing wargaming culture. I apologize if this analysis resembles the provincial nature of the „spicy food“ remarks—after all, we both hail from Minnesota. Hopefully, the context proves engaging even if my commentary falls short.
Thank you for the outstanding podcast!
Links for some of the points above.
MN Nazi’s (and KKK) Then
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ap-report-commander-nazi-ss-led-unit-living-minnesota-flna6c10322189
https://www.mnhs.org/newspapers/hub/voice-of-the-knights
MN Nazi’s Now(ish)
https://www.startribune.com/former-national-nazi-leader-native-minnesotan-hoping-others-follow-him-in-leaving-hate-behind/563581742/?refresh=true
MN Trot’s Then
https://www.lawcha.org/2014/11/07/dining-dinkytown-remembering-minneapolis-truckers-strikes-1934-bryan-d-palmer/
MN Trot’s Now
https://socialistrevolution.org/2022-minneapolis-marxist-school-a-big-success/
Tales From Lake Wobegon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRmKZIk1hH0
Terribly sorry, your insightful comment was hidden in the Spam. We thankfully retrieved it now. I will follow those links!
If I mistook the MN humour, than I apologize.
I enjoyed the podcast and have now subscribed to TENEpod! I’d like to contribute a few points about Minnesota that could enhance your discussion on these topics. During the conversation, it was mentioned that the Twin Cities held significant influence in organized wargaming, a context crucial to D&D’s inception. Interestingly, Minnesota also had a notable presence of organized Nazi groups during both D&D’s early years and Barker’s career span.
This raises questions about potential shared origins between the forces driving such groups and a thriving wargaming culture. It’s plausible that these phenomena run in parallel, stemming from a general inclination towards engagement in various organized social groups. For instance, the Twin Cities area saw surprisingly active Trotskyist organizations during similar time frames.
Another thought that emerged while listening pertains to the topic. I believe it was Septembrini who commented on the cringeworthy nature of an adult man with a doctorate discussing ethnic cuisine in a somewhat provincial manner. Although I missed the exchange, this immediately reminded me of a common communication style among a subset of (typically white) baby boomer adults in Minnesota. This tendency is partly influenced by the less-than-impressive state of US food culture in the mid-20th century and nurtured by popular narratives (like Fargo) that marketed Minnesota as a cultural commodity—both internally and externally. This particular aesthetic is exemplified in Garrison Keillor’s weekly radio segments, „The Tales from Lake Wobegon,“ where humorous portrayals of Minnesotans as rural, Norwegian, and Lutheran characters prevail. In essence, this PhD individual might have intended to come across as folksy and endearing, aligning with a distinct Minnesotan manner. Regrettably, statements like „ketchup is spicy to me“ are commonplace attempts at humor here.
Interestingly, Keillor purposefully crafted the notion of a Lutheran and Norwegian Minnesota to obscure the less marketable reality that the most prevalent ethnic and religious combination in the state is German and Catholic, a trend dating back to the 1800s influx of German and Scandinavian immigrants. It’s worth noting that Keillor’s decision to veil Minnesota’s demographic makeup was partially driven by the fact that the German-Catholic plurality was widespread in many Midwestern states. Makes one wonder if there are more intersections between MN’s earlier wargaming scene and fascist organizing.
Thank you for the outstanding podcast!
Links for some of the points above.
MN Nazi’s (and KKK) Then
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ap-report-commander-nazi-ss-led-unit-living-minnesota-flna6c10322189
https://www.mnhs.org/newspapers/hub/voice-of-the-knights
MN Nazi’s Now(ish)
https://www.startribune.com/former-national-nazi-leader-native-minnesotan-hoping-others-follow-him-in-leaving-hate-behind/563581742/?refresh=true
MN Trot’s Then
https://www.lawcha.org/2014/11/07/dining-dinkytown-remembering-minneapolis-truckers-strikes-1934-bryan-d-palmer/
MN Trot’s Now
https://socialistrevolution.org/2022-minneapolis-marxist-school-a-big-success/
Tales From Lake Woebegone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRmKZIk1hH0