[English] Talking With Zak S. Instead Of Gossiping About Him
I can assure you, we had no fun in discussing these topics here. Everyone was pretty taken aback by all the Drama. Many people even scared of it. And nobody took social clout from it.
I think you are categorically wrong in your maximalist stance of "punishment when found guilty". Nobody should ever get the death sentence, nobody should ever be irredeemably destroyed. So I do not follow your chain-of-assertions.
But you do not have to agree with me, I am fine with different perspectives on life and punishment.
tl;dr
"I haven't really done my homework on this high-stakes issue but I am going to make public claims about it"
...is a really easy and common thing to do on the internet.
...but it's still wrong and stupid and evil.
Zitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 17:50 UhrI can assure you, we had no fun in discussing these topics here. Everyone was pretty taken aback by all the Drama. Many people even scared of it. And nobody took social clout from it.
I think you are categorically wrong in your maximalist stance of "punishment when found guilty". Nobody should ever get the death sentence, nobody should ever be irredeemably destroyed. So I do not follow your chain-of-assertions.
But you do not have to agree with me, I am fine with different perspectives on life and punishment.
So, Settimbrini:
What's your solution?
Someone makes up a lie about you.
They spread it all over the internet.
You become unemployed, homeless, on food stamps, you lose everything. You lose 5 teeth.
Due to people who had a long track record of lying about you for years. Who could have been stopped at any time. But you don't believe in stopping them.
So: What's your solution?
Zitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:37 UhrThe second you voice an issue and it isn't first of all directly to the gamer you have an issue with all this shit is your fault.
And, lastly, digging back into y'alls old threads it's clear it's hopeless here. They are full of unquestioned trash.
I agree with the first sentiment: I have done poorly by talking about you instead of with you. I will do better.
I don't think you are being fair by calling all of us hopeless, however. At least Der Oger has made a serious attempt at doing better. Other than that, I am more than willing to discuss any trash I might have left lying around and find to be wrong.
Zitat von Hasran am 28. Januar 2023, 17:54 UhrZitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:37 UhrThe second you voice an issue and it isn't first of all directly to the gamer you have an issue with all this shit is your fault.
And, lastly, digging back into y'alls old threads it's clear it's hopeless here. They are full of unquestioned trash.
I agree with the first sentiment: I have done poorly by talking about you instead of with you. I will do better.
I don't think you are being fair by calling all of us hopeless, however. At least Der Oger has made a serious attempt at doing better. Other than that, I am more than willing to discuss any trash I might have left lying around and find to be wrong.
It would be unfair to say everyone behaved poorly.
There is, however, so much bullshit there that it's hard to keep up with, despite the efforts of anyone who tried to be better.
I for once did not make any judgements whatsoever and always called for evidence, which was sorely lacking. I also spoke out against the "which hunt" characteristics of the case.
My questions would be:
As, far as i remember, some of your business partners broke up with you, and you were no longer invited to some RPG conventions and fairs. Did any of those contacts ask for evidence of the allegations before terminating the cooperation?
Were there any people that stood with you?
Did the legal process solve anything?
Thany you for answering, Zak.
Zitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:53 UhrZitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 17:50 UhrI can assure you, we had no fun in discussing these topics here. Everyone was pretty taken aback by all the Drama. Many people even scared of it. And nobody took social clout from it.
I think you are categorically wrong in your maximalist stance of "punishment when found guilty". Nobody should ever get the death sentence, nobody should ever be irredeemably destroyed. So I do not follow your chain-of-assertions.
But you do not have to agree with me, I am fine with different perspectives on life and punishment.
So, Settimbrini:
What's your solution?
Someone makes up a lie about you.
They spread it all over the internet.
You become unemployed, homeless, on food stamps, you lose everything. You lose 5 teeth.
Due to people who had a long track record of lying about you for years. Who could have been stopped at any time. But you don't believe in stopping them.
So: What's your solution?
The solution is to not de-monetize, de-platform, not to destroy people. Hate mobs are bad, real or online. That is my position from day one. and even before that. Also, a social system with good health care for everybody, but that might be besides the point.
I do not understand your "Due to people..." sentence, what are you getting at?
generally:
Of course one has the right to defend against libel. And I have compassion for somebody who acts weirdly when defending against lies.
From the small lies that have been brought in position against myself, I have learned that in few cases are people interested in truth, btw. Even if the facts are straightened, the hate remains. And that is definitely a problem. A big problem.
Zitat von ErikErikson am 28. Januar 2023, 18:11 UhrI for once did not make any judgements whatsoever and always called for evidence, which was sorely lacking. I also spoke out against the "which hunt" characteristics of the case.
My questions would be:
As, far as i remember, some of your business partners broke up with you, and you were no longer invited to some RPG conventions and fairs. Did any of those contacts ask for evidence of the allegations before terminating the cooperation?
Were there any people that stood with you?
Did the legal process solve anything?
Thany you for answering, Zak.
This was your statement:
""Zak won't get far in Canada. They're very progressive and they put a lot of emphasis on women's rights.""
I don't know what else you said, but until you admit this may have been premature--or at least have a conversation about it--we have nothing to discuss.
Resolve one issue at a time.
Zitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 18:15 UhrZitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:53 UhrZitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 17:50 UhrI can assure you, we had no fun in discussing these topics here. Everyone was pretty taken aback by all the Drama. Many people even scared of it. And nobody took social clout from it.
I think you are categorically wrong in your maximalist stance of "punishment when found guilty". Nobody should ever get the death sentence, nobody should ever be irredeemably destroyed. So I do not follow your chain-of-assertions.
But you do not have to agree with me, I am fine with different perspectives on life and punishment.
So, Settimbrini:
What's your solution?
Someone makes up a lie about you.
They spread it all over the internet.
You become unemployed, homeless, on food stamps, you lose everything. You lose 5 teeth.
Due to people who had a long track record of lying about you for years. Who could have been stopped at any time. But you don't believe in stopping them.
So: What's your solution?
The solution is to not de-monetize, de-platform, not to destroy people. Hate mobs are bad, real or online. That is my position from day one. and even before that. Also, a social system with good health care for everybody, but that might be besides the point.
I do not understand your "Due to people..." sentence, what are you getting at?
generally:
Of course one has the right to defend against libel. And I have compassion for somebody who acts weirdly when defending against lies.
From the small lies that have been brought in position against myself, I have learned that in few cases are people interested in truth, btw. Even if the facts are straightened, the hate remains. And that is definitely a problem. A big problem.
You're not answering the question, you're just repeating what you already said.
I am not asking for the easy thing any child can do ("Please say what you already said in different words") I am asking for the hard thing --given your position, how do you deal with the harm that will result?
Can you answer the question?
Zitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 18:17 UhrZitat von ErikErikson am 28. Januar 2023, 18:11 UhrI for once did not make any judgements whatsoever and always called for evidence, which was sorely lacking. I also spoke out against the "which hunt" characteristics of the case.
My questions would be:
As, far as i remember, some of your business partners broke up with you, and you were no longer invited to some RPG conventions and fairs. Did any of those contacts ask for evidence of the allegations before terminating the cooperation?
Were there any people that stood with you?
Did the legal process solve anything?
Thany you for answering, Zak.
This was your statement:
""Zak won't get far in Canada. They're very progressive and they put a lot of emphasis on women's rights.""
I don't know what else you said, but until you admit this may have been premature--or at least have a conversation about it--we have nothing to discuss.
Resolve one issue at a time.
I honestly cannot remember if i said that, but i will assume it is correct. As far as i see it, it was an assumption of how the legal case would go in Cannada, without claiming that the outcome would be the correct one, nor claiming that i wish for this outcome. It surely was premature, but i do not see any malice towards you. Though if you feel slighted, its ok with me, you do not have to answer my questions.