[English] Talking With Zak S. Instead Of Gossiping About Him
Can you answer the question?
Maybe not to your satisfaction but right now you behave like an asshole to me. You wondered what I meant by that, 'manipulative asshole'? That line of argueing. So at least we got that clarified. You are not listening to the intent and the words I say, but seem to try to cajole me into a kind of cross-examination. If I mispnterpret your meaning, I am sorry.
But man, talk to those you deem to be worthy, I did not want to interject into the discussion you have. I just wanted to be clear and out in the open of what I said in german language about you. Not behind your back. And now you have it.
I have no ill wishes for your future. Still think you are a hell of a good writer and D&D player and DM.
"I do not understand your "Due to people..." sentence, what are you getting at?"
What am I "getting at"?
I am getting at: I want an answer to the question.
Imagine that scenario happened to you (as it has to me).
If we go by your rules: It just keeps happening, because you do not believe in consequences for liars.
If we go by mine: It doesn't. It stops. The liars need to reform or just not hang out talking about games on the internet. Because they experience consequences for lying.
So rather than saying again that you don't believe in consequences for liars, say how you address the fact that this policy you propose has a massive downside and no real upside.
And, to make it more vivid: I want you to imagine its happening to you rather than to your victim.
Zitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 18:30 UhrCan you answer the question?
Maybe not to your satisfaction but right now you behave like an asshole to me. You wondered what I meant by that, 'manipulative asshole'? That line of argueing. So at least we got that clarified. You are not listening to the intent and the words I say, but seem to try to cajole me into a kind of cross-examination. If I mispnterpret your meaning, I am sorry.
But man, talk to those you deem to be worthy, I did not want to interject into the discussion you have. I just wanted to be clear and out in the open of what I said in german language about you. Not behind your back. And now you have it.
I have no ill wishes for your future. Still think you are a hell of a good writer and D&D player and DM.
You are claiming being asked to answer a question about the reasoning behind a moral code you brought up 3 times in a row is "manipulative" or being an asshole?
That is the most disgusting thing I have seen in years. Like full-on moral disgust at that.
If you're too unintelligent to explain yourself, or too dishonest to admit your reasons, that needs to be exposed to anyone who might interact with you.
What happens in your ideal discourse universe? People dodge questions and have no reasons for what they say and we all just applaud like seals?
Conversation at the Settembrini household kitchen table:
"What should we have for dinner?"
Settembrini "I don't believe in eating food"
"How shall we sustain ourselves?"
Settembrini "DON'T MANIPULATE ME YOU ASSHOLE! I DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS!!!!"
Zitat von ErikErikson am 28. Januar 2023, 18:29 UhrIt surely was premature, but i do not see any malice towards you. Though if you feel slighted, its ok with me, you do not have to answer my questions.
It sure was premature. I am glad you admitted that.
As for slighted:
No, I have to answer your questions regardless of my emotions since you answered mine. It's a moral obligation.
So...
"
As, far as i remember, some of your business partners broke up with you, and you were no longer invited to some RPG conventions and fairs. Did any of those contacts ask for evidence of the allegations before terminating the cooperation?
"
No.
Anyone who asked for evidence maintained the relationship. Just: not many people asked for evidence.
"
Were there any people that stood with you?
"
In real life basically everyone stood with me because they knew my ex--but on the internet (including the RPG community) almost nobody did.
"
Did the legal process solve anything?
"
Its not over yet. But I have certainly made progress.
Thanks for the answers. I like people who answer my questions. And i can understand that you are careful after all this trouble with the RPG community.
I am sorry if the words cause disgust in you. Whatever that "answer the question! on my terms! until the one and only answer comes forth!"-thing is: I do not like it, and I think it is not good. That is my meaning. That was my meaning and I stand by it. You did it in the past with others and now I get a 1% version of it. Again, sorry if the words I chose to express that are to your disliking. What I meant is clear now, I hope.
To your question from before, that you kindly rephrased: Of course I would have tried to set the record straight.
If we go by your rules: It just keeps happening, because you do not believe in consequences for liars.
If we go by mine: It doesn't. It stops. The liars need to reform or just not hang out talking about games on the internet. Because they experience consequences for lying.
This, on the other hand, is a non-sequitur. I do believe in consequences for liars. But I do not believe in self-justice, of bringing the consequences of lying to the people personally. And I think it is wrong to cajole/demand your readers into going forth and "bringing consequences to liars".
I have compassion for someone wronged going overboard or on a revenge tour. I have understanding. But I do not think it the right course of action, like Michael Kolhaas, the literary figure. It is a luxurious position from which to say that, I can see that. But such is reality.
So, I do not put words in your mouth, so do not do so with me. I never said or meant half the things you are allegeing I meant.
If you want to talk about games, the OSR or somesuch, I will be listening and reading. But I fear whatever you want from me right now, I cannot give you.
Zitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:11 Uhr
ghoul
"
After Wizard Jeff has been silent for so long, he now sits down in the middle of the shitstorm:
https://jrients.blogspot.com/2019/12/re-zak.html
High INT, low WIS?
"
Jeff did the right thing.
Jeff did the right thing because he understood that's more important than being popular with a bunch of gamers online, not because he was so unwise he didn't know the gamers would be mad.
Hi Zak, welcome at the Disputorium!
You are probably right on Jeff, who knows you personally. I do not.
So what's my stance?
I used to regularly read your blog, when the Mandy thing happened. I waited for your reaction to make up my mind. In the end, the overall picture was that you looked like a, let's say not really nice person, but that was all. I never shared or supported any of the more extreme allegations or defamations made against you. The online hate mob that formed was quite apalling!
I may even have argued against them on some German forum, but I have not been active on international platforms. In Germany, discussions died down (or were closed by autoritarian moderators, I remember that I got reprimanded when bying 2nd hand Red... and Blue..., stating that I wished to save these pieces of art from being burned).
In Germany, most roleplayers have never heard your name and just don't care about this whole thing.
Jeff posted this 4h video which was said to redeem you from all kinds of allegations. I admit not having watched it (4 hours of dismissing crap!). Thus, not having consulted the material in your defense, I am not entitled to hold anything against you.
As a consequence, my opinion towards you personally is some kind of friendly indifference. As an artist, your work has merit!
Zitat von Settembrini am 28. Januar 2023, 18:57 UhrBut I do not believe in self-justice, of bringing the consequences of lying to the people personally. And I think it is wrong to cajole/demand your readers into going forth and "bringing consequences to liars".
But Why do you not believe it?
I didn't ask you to repeat yourself. I asked you to explain WHY.
Please use your keyboard to write an answer to this question, then hit "Absenden".
Please.
That would move the conversation along.
Zitat von ghoul am 28. Januar 2023, 19:00 UhrZitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:11 Uhr
ghoul
"
After Wizard Jeff has been silent for so long, he now sits down in the middle of the shitstorm:
https://jrients.blogspot.com/2019/12/re-zak.html
High INT, low WIS?
"
Jeff did the right thing.
Jeff did the right thing because he understood that's more important than being popular with a bunch of gamers online, not because he was so unwise he didn't know the gamers would be mad.
Hi Zak, welcome at the Disputorium!
You are probably right on Jeff, who knows you personally. I do not.
So what's my stance?
I used to regularly read your blog, when the Mandy thing happened. I waited for your reaction to make up my mind. In the end, the overall picture was that you looked like a, let's say not really nice person, but that was all. I never shared or supported any of the more extreme allegations or defamations made against you. The online hate mob that formed was quite apalling!
I may even have argued against them on some German forum, but I have not been active on international platforms. In Germany, discussions died down (or were closed by autoritarian moderators, I remember that I got reprimanded when bying 2nd hand Red... and Blue..., stating that I wished to save these pieces of art from being burned).
In Germany, most roleplayers have never heard your name and just don't care about this whole thing.
Jeff posted this 4h video which was said to redeem you from all kinds of allegations. I admit not having watched it (4 hours of dismissing crap!). Thus, not having consulted the material in your defense, I am not entitled to hold anything against you.
As a consequence, my opinion towards you personally is some kind of friendly indifference. As an artist, your work has merit!
That is completely different than all the complete and total bullshit you posted earlier on the subject.
For example:
" my well-meaning advice is, don't be Zak's advocate. "
Thanks for openly advising people not to help the harassment victim.
Zitat von ghoul am 28. Januar 2023, 19:00 UhrZitat von zak am 28. Januar 2023, 17:11 Uhr
ghoul
"
After Wizard Jeff has been silent for so long, he now sits down in the middle of the shitstorm:
https://jrients.blogspot.com/2019/12/re-zak.html
High INT, low WIS?
"
Jeff did the right thing.
Jeff did the right thing because he understood that's more important than being popular with a bunch of gamers online, not because he was so unwise he didn't know the gamers would be mad.
Hi Zak, welcome at the Disputorium!
You are probably right on Jeff, who knows you personally. I do not.
So what's my stance?
I used to regularly read your blog, when the Mandy thing happened. I waited for your reaction to make up my mind. In the end, the overall picture was that you looked like a, let's say not really nice person, but that was all. I never shared or supported any of the more extreme allegations or defamations made against you. The online hate mob that formed was quite apalling!
I may even have argued against them on some German forum, but I have not been active on international platforms. In Germany, discussions died down (or were closed by autoritarian moderators, I remember that I got reprimanded when bying 2nd hand Red... and Blue..., stating that I wished to save these pieces of art from being burned).
In Germany, most roleplayers have never heard your name and just don't care about this whole thing.
Jeff posted this 4h video which was said to redeem you from all kinds of allegations. I admit not having watched it (4 hours of dismissing crap!). Thus, not having consulted the material in your defense, I am not entitled to hold anything against you.
As a consequence, my opinion towards you personally is some kind of friendly indifference. As an artist, your work has merit!
Oh and here's more bullshit:
"I don't support Zak's attention-getting games. "Give me 100 clicks and I'll tell you dirt!" ."
So:
You didn't do the homework.
Don't have an opinion.
"Friendly indifference"
But you think trying to fix the problem is a "game".
This is fucking disgusting.